God teaches His Sons and calls them Home

Dear Pastor David,
I misconstrued not what you said, but you mean I misconstrued what you meant.
Well maybe.
First dear brother I want you to know that in my disagreeing with you i am not holding any personal enmity against you, but I am only standing against your doctrine. And even then, only against your doctrine as I perceive it. So I ask of you to not be offended by my words only to seek to listen to the force of my argument and to correct me where I have you wrong.

I said well maybe because your position is ambiguous to me. It *SEEMS* like you are saying two different things and I can’t seem to put them together. So let me point them out so you can explain them to me.

Let us start with where we agree. You said:
“I am a sinner saved by grace. I deserve only hell but am given a King’s ransom. Jesus did it all – I did nothing. I said that God initiates and I respond. God calls and I answered. God offered and I accepted. Faith is not a work. Believing is not a work”

These are fine words that I think every Christian should wholeheartedly be able to proclaim and should proclaim. We are sinners saved by grace. Jesus did it all and we did nothing.

But how do I reconcile Jesus did it all and I did nothing with the idea that I responded, I answered, I accepted? For would you not agree that if I had not responded, answered, and accepted, i would not be saved? I think so. I see it as Jesus doing all because my response, my answer, and my acceptance is due to how wonderful He is and is what any person in my shoes, what those who heard His call, would do. That everyone and anyone who heard His call, seen His revelation, glimpsed His glory would do: they would answer, they would respond, they would accept.

Now that is how I reconcile the ideas that Jesus did it all and i did nothing. It leaves me no place to boast. It leaves me humbled before Him and His love. It leaves me full of gratitude. It brings me to desire Him ever the more every time I reflect on it.

He is the reason I trust Him. He is the reason I continue to trust Him. And when I am weak and/or sinful, He is the reason I go back to trusting Him.

Now to the part where i disagree with you which is the part that seems to disagree with you as well.
You said:
“God graciously giving a partial revelation of Himself and my accepting it and He “rewarding” that response with more revelation is not merit just an unfortunate word choice on my part.”
and [discounting your word choice at the moment]:
“It is also possible that God in fact does draw all men through Natural Revelation (Romans 1) and rewards those few who respond with additional revelation”

Off the bat and before i start, i do wonder why that since you call your choice of word “unfortunate”, then why in your explanation didn’t you replace it with a more appropriate word instead of reusing it with quote marks?

Romans 1
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Now it seems that you are saying that there are some people who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness and/or who honor God as God and/or give Him thanks and that God rewards [your word] these people with further revelation. Is that what you are saying?

Okay lets say that is what you are saying. because what else can it mean when you say: “God in fact does draw all men through Natural Revelation (Romans 1) and rewards those few who respond with additional revelation”? I am assuming you mean they respond positively for what else would be the point. So these people respond positively to natural revelation -HOW? Well the Word tells us what people do, so let us then look at the opposite. The Word says they suppress the truth in unrighteousness, or in other words, they sin. The opposite would be that they do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness and they don’t sin. The Word says they failed to honor Him as God or give thanks to Him. So to do the opposite would mean that they did honor God and give thanks to Him. Thus they did NOT become futile in their speculating and their hearts were neither foolish or darkened. They were wise, and not fools and did not exchange the glory of God for an idol.

This wasn’t me pastor. And by your testimony David, this wasn’t you: “I am a sinner saved by grace. I deserve only hell…” It seems that our testimonies reflect the truths spelled out in Romans 1: that we suppressed the truth in unrighteousness, did not honor God, or give Him thanks and worshiped idols.

Do you see the contradiction?

So let us look at the next Scripture you bring up: John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Now it seems to me, and again please correct me if i am wrong, that you just figured that the place of ‘teaching’ was natural revelation. Did you read someone else that put you onto that?
Now whenever i want to understand the Scriptures better and the NT quotes from the OT, I go there to expand my understanding. So let us go to Isaiah 54 and read this in context:

O afflicted one, storm-tossed, and not comforted,
Behold, I will set your stones in antimony,
And your foundations I will lay in sapphires.
“Moreover, I will make your battlements of rubies,
And your gates of crystal,
And your entire wall of precious stones.
“All your sons will be taught of the Lord;
And the well-being of your sons will be great.
“In righteousness you will be established;
You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear;
And from terror, for it will not come near you.
“If anyone fiercely assails you it will not be from Me.
Whoever assails you will fall because of you.
“Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals
And brings out a weapon for its work;
And I have created the destroyer to ruin.
“No weapon that is formed against you will prosper;
And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
And their vindication is from Me,” declares the Lord.

Who is the Lord speaking about, these “sons”? The last lines of the chapter clue us in:
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
And their vindication is from Me,” declares the Lord.

So let me ask you a question, Pastor David, before one is saved, are they a son of God? If you say no, then how is it you say they are sons taught by God from natural revelation while they are not yet saved? But if you you say yes, then how are they sons except by the election of God? So back to John 6…

Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Who is God speaking to in Isaiah 54? is it not Jesus? Here is what He says in Isaiah 53:

But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.

“He will see His offspring”!
And then in the next chapter, He says of these offspring:
“All your sons will be taught of the Lord;
And the well-being of your sons will be great.”

He says of them in 53:
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.

and of them in 54:
“No weapon that is formed against you will prosper;
And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
And their vindication is from Me,” declares the Lord.

And it is these that He draws to Himself in John 6 and it is these He saves.
But if those being saved it is said:

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

and… just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.

In the first passage, Paul includes his Jewish brethren, “we too”. So that when we read in Romans 3:

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
Destruction and misery are in their paths,
And the path of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Thus we know, Pastor David, that NO ONE is excluded from falling as detailed by Romans 1. That all are saved by grace even as you and I are. For the Ephesian 2 passage pronounces it. And the Ephesians 4 passage above goes on to say:

But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Are there some lessons you have learned in life that you had no choice in? Do you always know when God is teaching you? Did your salvation hinge not only on Jesus doing it all, but also on you properly answering, and positively responding to His teaching so that one day you could allowingly accept the Lord of Glory into your life?

How do you reconcile Jesus did it all with your answering, responding and accepting?

But even so, after all of that, you still need to address the idea that salvation is limited to whom He calls if He only teaches His sons, and all have rejected natural revelation.

Peace brother.

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About parsonsmike

seriously into the Word of God
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